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whitlarson

Posts: 5155

Posted: 21 Jan 2008 08:48 AM
Subject: The Things Which I Saw While I Was Carried Away in the Spirit - BOMSG - Lesson 4

The Things Which I Saw While I Was Carried Away in the Spirit

The purpose:

To help class members understand Nephi’s vision of the future and how the warnings and promises in it apply to us today.

Scriptures:

1 Nephi 12–14

http://scriptures.lds.org/1_ne/12

http://scriptures.lds.org/1_ne/13

http://scriptures.lds.org/1_ne/14

-----------------------------------------------

Teacher's Manual Link:

http://tinyurl.com/28u9ek

Student Manual Link:

http://tinyurl.com/ypppta

XO

Whit

whitlarson

Posts: 5155

Posted: 21 Jan 2008 08:50 AM
Subject: The Things Which I Saw While I Was Carried Away in the Spirit - BOMSG - Lesson 4

LDS Living Link:

http://www.ldsliving.com/bom4.asp

Meridian Link(s):

http://www.ldsmag.com/gospeldoctrine/bom/080116bom4.html

BYU New Testament Series:

Episode 5 - "Christ’s Ministry" (1 Nephi 9-15)

http://www.byub.org/bookofmormon/episode.asp?id=5

-Whit

PS

A reminder that there are some GREAT links if you click on the BYU BOM Series. They are listed as additional resources!

whitlarson

Posts: 5155

Posted: 21 Jan 2008 08:51 AM
Subject: The Things Which I Saw While I Was Carried Away in the Spirit - BOMSG - Lesson 4

Past Lesson Links:

Lesson 1 - http://deseretbook.com/time-out/forum/time-out/506812

Lesson 2 - http://deseretbook.com/time-out/forum/time-out/508456

Lesson 3 - http://deseretbook.com/time-out/forum/time-out/510618

New Testament - 2007

http://deseretbook.com/time-out/forum/time-out/502654

whitlarson

Posts: 5155

Posted: 21 Jan 2008 01:21 PM
Subject: The Things Which I Saw While I Was Carried Away in the Spirit - BOMSG - Lesson 4

Just bumping this up so it will be on top of the older thread. :)

Love all of the comments for last week, though - let's keep them coming!!

ctr2002

Posts: 14241

Posted: 21 Jan 2008 06:23 PM
Subject: The Things Which I Saw While I Was Carried Away in the Spirit - BOMSG - Lesson 4

Institute Manual

1 Ne 11 - 14

http://www.ldsces.org/inst_manuals/bm-in-sm1996/bm1996-02-1ne.htm#2-3

looney_tunes

Posts: 478

Posted: 22 Jan 2008 10:35 AM
Subject: The Things Which I Saw While I Was Carried Away in the Spirit - BOMSG - Lesson 4

There is a footnote in "The Book of Mormon for Latter-Day Saint Families" for Chapter 12 Verses 10 & 11 that reads: "Notice why these Twelve Apostles are "righteous forever." Because of their faith in the Atonement of Jesus Christ, their 'garments are made white,' or, in other words, their sins are forgiven and they are given power to live righteously."

See also, Mosiah 5:2 (which reads): "And they all cried with one voice, saying: Yea, we believe all the words which thou hast spoken unto us; and also, we know of their surety and truth, because of the Spirit of the Lord Omnipotent, which has wrought a mighty change in us, or in our hearts, that we have no more disposition to do evil, but to do good continually."

What Nephi saw was a study in contrasts--good and evil, righteousness and wickedness. I have been on a tangent this morning, studying why those who remained righteous were able to do so. The answer is in the footnote--because of their faith in the Atonement, their desire to do evil was taken away, and they were given power to live righteously. That is powerful to me, and I just told a friend this morning, I feel like I am at war with the good twin/evil twin within myself, one wanting to be nice and forgiving, the other one wanting to give in and be mean and rotten. What Nephi saw happening on a grand scale with his people, happens on an individual basis with each of us in our lives, and it is up to us to choose righteousness.

So I started a new book--"The Infinite Atonement" by Tad R. Callister to assist me in better understanding and applying the Atonement. I will probably be sharing lots of my Tuesday morning quotes from it for a while.

Here's one for today:

"Years ago Handel composed his masterpiece in choir reportoire--the unparalleled 'Messiah.' This composition was not just the product of a gifted man. Flowing from the lyrics are the clear markings of divine intervention. The heavenly voiceprint is unmistakable. For twenty-four days Handel remained a spiritual recluse in his room as he fashioned line after line of music seemingly fit for heavenly choirs. At one point, after having scored the Hallelujah Chorus, he called to his servant and exclaimed, "I did think I did see all Heaven before me, and the great God Himself." Following one of his performances, a friend remarked that he had been entertained. Handel replied, 'I should be sorry if I only entertain them. I wish to make them better.' Likewise, the Savior is anxious that the Atonement make us better. He must be gravely disappointed if people merely acknowledge his Atonement as a magnificent sacrifice to be viewed in awe, but with no thought of change. The atoning sacrifice was designed to motivate us, to draw us unto him, to lift us to higher ground, and ultimately to assist us in becoming as he is."

egillespie

Posts: 3340

Posted: 22 Jan 2008 06:42 PM
Subject: The Things Which I Saw While I Was Carried Away in the Spirit - BOMSG - Lesson 4

Love that one looney! We are supposed to be motivated, not awed. Me, just odd.

One passing comment? I am impressed with the leadership skills of the angel. Unlike a tour guide, which role he could have taken, he asked incisive, powerful questions, such as "what desirest thou?"
"Knowest thou the condescension of God?" These types of questions recur in other heavenly manifestations and in healings...what do you want? Why are you here? Where is your faith? Do you really believe God? Who do you think He is? There is power in acknowledging, not just to the angel, but to ourselves, the honest answers to these questions!

The nonquestion is the word, "Look", followed always by "And I looked, and beheld..." This is also powerful to me because so often the answers are right around us; we just need to open our (spiritual) eyes.

E

egillespie

Posts: 3340

Posted: 22 Jan 2008 06:45 PM
Subject: The Things Which I Saw While I Was Carried Away in the Spirit - BOMSG - Lesson 4

BTW, who was the angel? Do we know?

bennetsister

Posts: 899

Posted: 23 Jan 2008 07:25 AM
Subject: The Things Which I Saw While I Was Carried Away in the Spirit - BOMSG - Lesson 4

I am late postng this. Sorry. I got on a few times to do it and then got pulled away before I got it done.

Seminary Link:
http://tinyurl.com/3buye8

bennetsister

Posts: 899

Posted: 23 Jan 2008 07:45 AM
Subject: The Things Which I Saw While I Was Carried Away in the Spirit - BOMSG - Lesson 4

Have you noticed that sometimes it is the spirit and sometimes it is an angel Nephi is speaking with?

I love how imteractive this vision is. Question and answer between Nephi and the "Spirit"

v.2 what desirest thou?
v.3 to see the things my father saw
v.4 do you believe you father saw what he says he saw?
v.5 Yes I believe everything my father tells me
v.6 because you believe you will see
And the question/answers continue throughout the vision.

Here is what James E Talmage said about the Spirit: (From the book Articles of Faith)
"The Holy Ghost, called also Spirit, and Spirit of the Lord, Spirit of God, Comforter, and Spirit of Truth, is not tabernacled in a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of spirit; yet we know that the Spirit has manifested Himself in the form of a man. (1 Nephi 1:11)
"That the Spirit of the Lord is capable of manifesting Himself in the form and figure of man, is indicated by the wonderful interview between the Spirit and Nephi, in which He revealed Himself to the prophet, questioned him concerning his desires and belief, instructed him in the things of God, speaking face to face with the man. 'I spake unto him,' says Nephi, 'as a man speaketh; for I beheld that he was in the form of a man; yet nevertheless, I knew that it was the Spirit of the Lord; and he spake unto me as a man speaketh with another.' "

I had more to comment on but baby is crying so I must go attend to her needs. i'll try to pop back in and finish what I was thinking.

whitsmom

Posts: 210

Posted: 23 Jan 2008 08:01 AM
Subject: The Things Which I Saw While I Was Carried Away in the Spirit - BOMSG - Lesson 4

Whit, I keep meaning to share this - which you have probably already read: The Prophet Joseph said, "Everlasting covenant was made between three personages before the organization of this earth and relates to their dispensation of things to men on the earth. These personsages...are called God the first, the Creator; God the second, the Redeemer; and God the third, the Witness or Testator."
Not quite on topic, here, but sharing I am!

egillespie

Posts: 3340

Posted: 23 Jan 2008 10:52 AM
Subject: The Things Which I Saw While I Was Carried Away in the Spirit - BOMSG - Lesson 4

thanks bennetsister, cool stuff. So then maybe Nephi was the only one who "saw" the Holy Ghost, but in the form of a man? Could this be true? Come back and share the rest of your thoughts.
E

verily

Posts: 1402

Posted: 23 Jan 2008 04:00 PM
Subject: The Things Which I Saw While I Was Carried Away in the Spirit - BOMSG - Lesson 4

I really like this talk by Stephen E Robinson about the Great and Abominable Church. I know when I was a kid, I thought the great and abominable church was the catholic church.....and now I could think of a few others that might seem like it....but his explanation makes more sense.

http://tinyurl.com/2xostx

verily

Posts: 1402

Posted: 23 Jan 2008 05:56 PM
Subject: The Things Which I Saw While I Was Carried Away in the Spirit - BOMSG - Lesson 4

In the visions of 1 Nephi 12 and 13, Nephi saw the future of the promised land. He saw the Nephites and the Lamanites and the Gentiles. Among other things, he saw that

. . . the seed of my brethren did contend against my seed, according to the word of the angel; and because of the pride of my seed, and the temptations of the devil, I beheld that the seed of my brethren did overpower the people of my seed (1 Nephi 12:19).

Can you imagine your own feelings if you were to discover by revelation that the descendants of your siblings would one day destroy your own posterity?

But Nephi never stumbles. His confidence that the ways of God are just is absolute. He continues on throughout his life doing what has to be done when it has to be done. The understanding of what will be done by the descendants of Laman and Lemuel never restrains him from loving them and preaching to them and encouraging them. I stand in awe at the power of this prophet, and his unfaltering willingness to do the right thing.
This is from the LDS Living Link, but Ted Gibbons...I have tried to post it two times aready and lost it...so I guess maybe I was saying something that didn't need to be said. It does amaze me though, that Nephi has so much faith, to accept the Lords will, and will still do all he can even though in the end it may seem in vein...I guess it isn't, cause there is still alot of good that happens before his people are destroyed. How easy would it be to try and change things though...to work out in your families favor?

I hope that I can have the same kindof faith someday. I know that is probably just asking for it!

whitlarson

Posts: 5155

Posted: 24 Jan 2008 09:16 AM
Subject: The Things Which I Saw While I Was Carried Away in the Spirit - BOMSG - Lesson 4

I LOVE how much you are all participating this year. I hope to have some time in the next day or so to write some thoughts about what I've studied this week.

Thanks to all of you for such good stuff! (I know there are a few lurkers out there... you should join in!)

-Whit

ctr2002

Posts: 14241

Posted: 24 Jan 2008 09:24 AM
Subject: The Things Which I Saw While I Was Carried Away in the Spirit - BOMSG - Lesson 4

I'm struggling with how to teach this lesson to 12 year olds.

lorig

Posts: 3239

Posted: 26 Jan 2008 04:25 PM
Subject: The Things Which I Saw While I Was Carried Away in the Spirit - BOMSG - Lesson 4

Had to go to page four to find this! Okay now I am going to read everyone's comments and pray and study. Watch out I might have a deep thought or question that happens!

ctr2002

Posts: 14241

Posted: 26 Jan 2008 07:55 PM
Subject: The Things Which I Saw While I Was Carried Away in the Spirit - BOMSG - Lesson 4

I'm still struggling. =(

lorig

Posts: 3239

Posted: 26 Jan 2008 08:26 PM
Subject: The Things Which I Saw While I Was Carried Away in the Spirit - BOMSG - Lesson 4

Would it work for you to focus on the "Cool" things that Nephi saw? He saw the future. He saw the discovery of America, the apostasy, and the Restoration. Conclude with talking about the great and abominable church and Christ's church. Which one do we want to be a part of? Would this work?

---woodstock---

Posts: 2046

Posted: 26 Jan 2008 09:01 PM
Subject: The Things Which I Saw While I Was Carried Away in the Spirit - BOMSG - Lesson 4

If it were me I would follow the teachers manual just as outlined. It has everything that they need as a basis. This will be their first time with this book of scripture in this manner. It is an amazing lesson.

Oh and I know you will do awesomely (is that even a word?) because you love this kind of stuff, and you have your mission experience and teacher experience and you're awesome.

ctr2002

Posts: 14241

Posted: 26 Jan 2008 10:22 PM
Subject: The Things Which I Saw While I Was Carried Away in the Spirit - BOMSG - Lesson 4

I have been following the manual... sheesh...

btw I stink as a teacher.

islandmama

Posts: 423

Posted: 26 Jan 2008 10:40 PM
Subject: The Things Which I Saw While I Was Carried Away in the Spirit - BOMSG - Lesson 4

I remember one time when I was reading these chapters and I got very confused because at first it was talking about how Nephi wanted to know about the vision of the tree of life and yet the Spirit didn't show him the tree at that point, but instead started talking about other stuff (that to me, I couldn't see the connection to at first). I had to read it over and over again, trying to figure out how it jumps from the 2 "seemingly" different things. As I pondered it, it really taught me about prayer. Often we ask for something in our prayers and are shown or given an answer that we may not recognize as related to what we were asking. But the blessings of the Spirit allow us to see that there are many levels to our prayers and answers. Nephi asked about the tree which represents the love of God, and was shown the love of God in a way that wasn't specifically about the tree. Am I making sense? I'm sick and stuffed up and coughing, so my brain is a bit foggy.

My point is that those chapters not only teach us about God and His love for us, and also the specific things that Nephi saw, but they also teach us about how prayer works and to be able to recognize that prayers are answered in different ways sometimes. My thoughts were if I had been Nephi- "I ask about the tree and you show me some woman in Jerusalem?" - my mortal, shortsightedness. lol

ctr2002

Posts: 14241

Posted: 26 Jan 2008 11:08 PM
Subject: The Things Which I Saw While I Was Carried Away in the Spirit - BOMSG - Lesson 4

like the relation to prayer.

Cool... especially since I'm trying to relate it all to me...

snoopy8385

Posts: 2629

Posted: 27 Jan 2008 12:29 AM
Subject: The Things Which I Saw While I Was Carried Away in the Spirit - BOMSG - Lesson 4

oh my friend, I know you are following the manual, I guess I can't make myself clear through words. I was trying to suggest not to panic, to follow and it will work out. I know you don't suck as a teacher. Sometimes when I teach I freak because I need to add this or that but when I just follow it works out fine. Guess that wasn't clear. Sorry.

ctr2002

Posts: 14241

Posted: 27 Jan 2008 12:34 AM
Subject: The Things Which I Saw While I Was Carried Away in the Spirit - BOMSG - Lesson 4

No, no.. I'm sorry. You're right, I was panicking a little because I couldn't see how it worked together. The different sections of the lessons didn't connect in my brain.

I just wanted to say that it isn't like I just decided I was going to prepare the lesson tonight. I've been working on it since last Sunday. Again, I couldn't get it to work...

However, I think it does now. I spent the last two hours reading and discussing the lesson with whomever will listen (my cat, he's a good listener sometimes)...

I'm thinking it'll be ok. I'll tell you tomorrow. I've got some good ideas now that just need to finish percolating during the sleep period! :) =)